diff --git a/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/deploy/BeanPropertyAssocMany.java b/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/deploy/BeanPropertyAssocMany.java
index d4f3c3488..c3d95dafc 100644
--- a/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/deploy/BeanPropertyAssocMany.java
+++ b/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/deploy/BeanPropertyAssocMany.java
@@ -24,6 +24,7 @@ import java.sql.SQLException;
 import java.util.ArrayList;
 import java.util.Collection;
 import java.util.List;
+import java.util.Map;
 
 /**
  * Property mapped to a List Set or Map.
@@ -180,9 +181,27 @@ public class BeanPropertyAssocMany<T> extends BeanPropertyAssoc<T> {
     help.add(bc, detailBean);
   }
 
-  public boolean isEmptyBeanCollection(EntityBean bean) {
+  /**
+   * Return true if this is considered 'empty' from a save perspective.
+   */
+  public boolean isEmptyBeanCollection(EntityBean bean, boolean insertedParent) {
     Object val = getValue(bean);
-    return val == null || (val instanceof BeanCollection<?>) && ((BeanCollection<?>) val).isEmptyAndUntouched();
+    if (val == null) {
+      return true;
+    }
+    if ((val instanceof BeanCollection<?>)) {
+      return ((BeanCollection<?>) val).isEmptyAndUntouched();
+    }
+    if (insertedParent) {
+      // check 'vanilla' collection types
+      if (val instanceof Collection<?>){
+        return ((Collection<?>) val).isEmpty();
+      }
+      if (val instanceof Map<?,?>) {
+        return ((Map<?,?>) val).isEmpty();
+      }
+    }
+    return false;
   }
 
   /**
diff --git a/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/persist/DefaultPersister.java b/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/persist/DefaultPersister.java
index dfc3ec8ce..3a38a543a 100644
--- a/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/persist/DefaultPersister.java
+++ b/src/main/java/com/avaje/ebeaninternal/server/persist/DefaultPersister.java
@@ -573,7 +573,7 @@ public final class DefaultPersister implements Persister {
     BeanPropertyAssocMany<?>[] manys = desc.propertiesManySave();
     for (int i = 0; i < manys.length; i++) {
       // check that property is loaded and not empty uninitialised collection
-      if (request.isLoadedProperty(manys[i]) && !manys[i].isEmptyBeanCollection(parentBean)) {
+      if (request.isLoadedProperty(manys[i]) && !manys[i].isEmptyBeanCollection(parentBean, insertedParent)) {
         saveMany(new SaveManyPropRequest(insertedParent, manys[i], parentBean, request), insertMode);
         if (!insertedParent) {
           request.addUpdatedManyProperty(manys[i]);
diff --git a/src/test/java/com/avaje/tests/batchinsert/TestBatchInsertWithInitialisedCollection.java b/src/test/java/com/avaje/tests/batchinsert/TestBatchInsertWithInitialisedCollection.java
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..e990a959b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/src/test/java/com/avaje/tests/batchinsert/TestBatchInsertWithInitialisedCollection.java
@@ -0,0 +1,50 @@
+package com.avaje.tests.batchinsert;
+
+import com.avaje.ebean.BaseTestCase;
+import com.avaje.ebean.Ebean;
+import com.avaje.ebean.Transaction;
+import com.avaje.ebean.config.PersistBatch;
+import com.avaje.tests.model.basic.OCachedBean;
+import org.avaje.ebeantest.LoggedSqlCollector;
+import org.junit.Test;
+
+import java.util.ArrayList;
+import java.util.List;
+
+import static org.assertj.core.api.Assertions.assertThat;
+
+public class TestBatchInsertWithInitialisedCollection extends BaseTestCase {
+
+  @Test
+  public void test() {
+
+    List<OCachedBean> list = new ArrayList();
+
+    for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
+      OCachedBean bean = new OCachedBean();
+      bean.setName("name "+i);
+      list.add(bean);
+    }
+
+    LoggedSqlCollector.start();
+
+    Transaction txn = Ebean.beginTransaction();
+    try {
+      txn.setBatch(PersistBatch.ALL);
+
+      Ebean.saveAll(list);
+      txn.commit();
+
+    } finally {
+      txn.end();
+    }
+
+    List<String> loggedSql = LoggedSqlCollector.stop();
+    assertThat(loggedSql).hasSize(3);
+
+    for (String sql : loggedSql) {
+      assertThat(sql).contains("insert into o_cached_bean (id, name) values (?,?);");
+    }
+
+  }
+}